Lehigh Lafayette

Back-to-back PL champs 2016 and 2017.... but need to get back to relevance in the national FCS scene.
Sundayamqb
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Re: Lehigh Lafayette

Post by Sundayamqb » Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:09 pm

While it's tough to complain about the D, it did give up 20 points to a subpar squad (that said, I was impressed by LC's receivers -- a strength of both teams). LC's D was super, too.

Most disappointing is the OL and special teams -- not only the K/P, but returns, too. They don't look much like FCS-level football. If I were the ST coach, I'd be embarrassed.

As we saw a few years ago, all-Americans can be made with good OLs. Without them, a crappy offense makes a decent defense look bad, and a mediocre team look awful.

The fall will be really ugly without some kind of miracle on the OL and more discipline on O and ST.

Ultimately, it comes down to coaching -- player recruiting, then development.

When I see the HC mouthing at referees when the game's on the line, I have to wonder about the coaching focus.

Let's hope we're all pleasantly surprised come fall.


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Re: Lehigh Lafayette

Post by Go Lehigh TU Owl » Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:14 pm

TMH wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:48 pm
Go Lehigh TU Owl wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:18 pm Spring pretty much went as I expected, winless and uninspiring. Given the coaching and lack of talent/experience at OL and QB it was pretty much a perfect storm for a disaster. Going 0-3 against below average PL competition (relative to the rest of FCS), even if it is spring, makes the issues even more alarming.

Next fall will be very ugly. The worst record I can recall during my life is 3-8; I think a 1 or 2 win campaign is very much in play. Lehigh likely won't be favorite to win until November 13th again Georgetown. This current losing skid isn't going to end anytime soon. I have to think they'll be picked 6th in a preseason poll? What's the lowest ever?

I really hope the Ivy League opts to play so Lehigh can play Princeton and Penn next year. The next two games are Villanova and Richmond. I'm really looking forward to see how Lehigh comes out in September against legit FCS competition. As of now I'll take Villanova by 40+....

This is the worst shape I've seen Lehigh football in in my 30+ years of following the program.
I respect your opinions but this post seems to be hyperbolic or at least premature IMO. What we watched over the past month or so is really spring football with some exhibition games. Like many teams Lehigh has not been together as a team in almost a year before having to put a product on the field. Veteran teams can transition better than most however if I look at our depth chart today, there are 7 seniors on the 2 deep over the entire list incl long snapper. There are however 20 freshmen on there and a lot of untested sophomores including a transfer QB.

Yes, we went 0-3 but statistically we didn't do much worse than anyone we played. Our growth curve is bound to be steeper. These are not normal times. Where did Johns Hopkins and Penn State disappear to in lacrosse? Are Duke and NC fans giving up on their programs in basketball?

We have things to fix..definitely but I found some pluses too. Much depends on how hard everyone is willing to work over the next 5 months.
I'm going back to what I saw in the 2019 campaign, especially down the stretch. The offense is one of the worst units in FCS. When you don't have an OL and QB you don't have a chance. When you don't have the coaches capable of development you don't have a chance. Brisson is like Troy Brown 2.0 as the OC/QB developer, simply not Division 1 caliber. Cecchini was hired for the 2010 season, dumped JB Clark, went with Lum and developed what would become one of the top offensive units in FCS; several All-American skill players and a Payton Award Runner-up in Lum. Will Gilmore be bringing Brisson back or will he find a legit, high caliber OC to right the ship?

I don't believe Gilmore is capable of fixing this in any capacity. Holy Cross rid themselves of him and their program turned around within two seasons by hiring a proven winner in Bob Chesney. Chesney and the Crusaders will continue to own the league until he moves on for greener pasture

Duke fans should be content because they have the winningest coach in college basketball history. UNC fans have a right to be nervous. Is Hubert Davis the next Roy Williams or the next Matt Doherty? Lehigh has Adam Gase (fired by Dolphins hired by division rival Jets)....

I'll put the O/U Fall win total at 2.5
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Re: Lehigh Lafayette

Post by Go Lehigh TU Owl » Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:51 pm

Heading into the fall this has been the offensive production under Gilmore and Brisson. Something has to change...right?

13, 10, 13, 10, 21, 30, 27, 17, 10, 6, 16, 3, 0, 13 for a 13.5 PPG average

Villanova
@ Richmond
Princeton
@ Colgate
@ Penn
@ Fordham
Holy Cross

are the next 7 games. And they're not too far away....
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Re: Lehigh Lafayette

Post by TMH » Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:18 am

Wow... you really have it in for Gilmore and I'm not really interested in why. He took over a team that had 1 1st team PL player returning (Portoreal) and 1 2nd team player (McCloskey). The defense gave up 35 ppg in 2018 and 41 ppg the year before and in his first year, the group he inherited held opponents to the lowest total since 2011. I find that to be pretty remarkable.

My point however is that this spring is indicative of nothing. Dave C did a great job here at Lehigh but Bucknell scored 6 points against us with only about 230 yds of total offense. Is that indicative of him being a terrible offensive coach? I think we can agree that it does not.

Finding a new O/C may be the an answer to the offense. I don't know if that decision lies with Gilmore or Sterrett.
One thing I am fairly certain of is that the entire offense revolves an offensive line that is not only talented but cohesive. Lehigh has had 3 different O/L coaches in the last 3 years. They have been decimated with both injuries and graduations. We are currently starting 2 sophs and a freshman. There is only 1 senior on the OL on the team. So there is the area of focus. Gilmore, in his 2nd recruiting class has 2 *** O/L recruits and one of the top OG in PA. With luck these guys wil gel with our other young OL as a cohesive group.
Developing a QB?. In this extremely limited off-season, our 2 deep has had no previous experience operating our offense on the field and extremely limited practice time.

Can we fix the offense in "real" year 2 of the Gilmore era like we did the defense? That remains to be seen but I would base absolutely nothing on this spring.
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Re: Lehigh Lafayette

Post by Go Lehigh TU Owl » Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:57 am

TMH wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:18 am Wow... you really have it in for Gilmore and I'm not really interested in why. He took over a team that had 1 1st team PL player returning (Portoreal) and 1 2nd team player (McCloskey). The defense gave up 35 ppg in 2018 and 41 ppg the year before and in his first year, the group he inherited held opponents to the lowest total since 2011. I find that to be pretty remarkable.

My point however is that this spring is indicative of nothing. Dave C did a great job here at Lehigh but Bucknell scored 6 points against us with only about 230 yds of total offense. Is that indicative of him being a terrible offensive coach? I think we can agree that it does not.

Finding a new O/C may be the an answer to the offense. I don't know if that decision lies with Gilmore or Sterrett.
One thing I am fairly certain of is that the entire offense revolves an offensive line that is not only talented but cohesive. Lehigh has had 3 different O/L coaches in the last 3 years. They have been decimated with both injuries and graduations. We are currently starting 2 sophs and a freshman. There is only 1 senior on the OL on the team. So there is the area of focus. Gilmore, in his 2nd recruiting class has 2 *** O/L recruits and one of the top OG in PA. With luck these guys wil gel with our other young OL as a cohesive group.
Developing a QB?. In this extremely limited off-season, our 2 deep has had no previous experience operating our offense on the field and extremely limited practice time.

Can we fix the offense in "real" year 2 of the Gilmore era like we did the defense? That remains to be seen but I would base absolutely nothing on this spring.
I don't have it in for Gilmore. His record speaks for itself. I watch and research the other schools and have a vested interest in how they do as a whole. Gilmore was 72-81 at Holy Cross with one playoff appearance. He's 25-53 the last 8 years as a head coach. I followed his entire tenure at Holy Cross (I follow every PL football program closely) and it became a disaster at the end. He had a very talented QB in Peter Pujals for 4 years and managed to accomplish a 6-5 record and win over UNH. The comedy of errors in regards to decision making at the end of his tenure were legendary. The OT loss to Dartmouth and 10-7 loss to Lafayette were a result of numerous coaching gaffes. The 32-0 shutout to Yale was the final nail in the coffin. Holy Cross did the absolute right thing by firing him and hiring a proven winner in Chesney. He came in and within two years cleaned up Gilmore's mess and won the league. They're going to win the spring season and likely the fall as well. Gilmore was the problem on Mount Saint James. He's simply not a good head coach. He's always struggled to put together staffs and his recruiting was never great.

Duffner, Higgins, Clawson, Biddle, Lembo, Coen, Moorhead, Chesney and I'll throw in Tom Gadd (48-28 at Bucknell!) are/were just different next level PL coaches. This league needs more of them.

I've been saying that Hunt is not the second coming of Biddle for a couple years; Gate fans are finally realizing it. He's still good (2018, 2015 seasons were legit) but can't build a consistent winner in Hamilton. Conlin has a ton of talent at Fordham but the Rams are often their own worst enemy. Garrett at Lafayette nope, sorry. Sgarlata has a brutal situation in DC. Cecchini at least is playing for the PL spring title next week against HC.

Overall, the coaching in the league overall is the worst its ever been. In 2000 you had Biddle, Higgins, Clawson, Gadd, a young motivated Tavani a competent Gordy Combs at Towson and Dan Allen who struggled before his tragic passing.
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Re: Lehigh Lafayette

Post by LUFAN » Sun Apr 11, 2021 8:58 am

TMH wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:18 am Wow... you really have it in for Gilmore and I'm not really interested in why. He took over a team that had 1 1st team PL player returning (Portoreal) and 1 2nd team player (McCloskey). The defense gave up 35 ppg in 2018 and 41 ppg the year before and in his first year, the group he inherited held opponents to the lowest total since 2011. I find that to be pretty remarkable.

My point however is that this spring is indicative of nothing. Dave C did a great job here at Lehigh but Bucknell scored 6 points against us with only about 230 yds of total offense. Is that indicative of him being a terrible offensive coach? I think we can agree that it does not.

Finding a new O/C may be the an answer to the offense. I don't know if that decision lies with Gilmore or Sterrett.
One thing I am fairly certain of is that the entire offense revolves an offensive line that is not only talented but cohesive. Lehigh has had 3 different O/L coaches in the last 3 years. They have been decimated with both injuries and graduations. We are currently starting 2 sophs and a freshman. There is only 1 senior on the OL on the team. So there is the area of focus. Gilmore, in his 2nd recruiting class has 2 *** O/L recruits and one of the top OG in PA. With luck these guys wil gel with our other young OL as a cohesive group.
Developing a QB?. In this extremely limited off-season, our 2 deep has had no previous experience operating our offense on the field and extremely limited practice time.

Can we fix the offense in "real" year 2 of the Gilmore era like we did the defense? That remains to be seen but I would base absolutely nothing on this spring.
I don’t know any of these coaches but to say this spring is meaningless is untrue. It exhibited the same trend that has been in place for several years. Lehigh’s OL is not the problem. Bucknell starts 2 freshman on OL and you don’t hear these same excuses. The common denominator seems apparent for those of us on the outside.

Also read something about Lehigh being statistically similar to opponents. That’s not even close to true. Look at PL website. 2nd to last in passing, dead last in points and rushing. QB had another -20 of rushing and another fumble yesterday. The WR screen game is tiresome. Scrap it and start over.

Should be an interesting few months.
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Re: Lehigh Lafayette

Post by van » Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:06 am

Offense is going nowhere as long as Brisson is there, if Gilmore does not make a change there it is on him
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Re: Lehigh Lafayette

Post by TMH » Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:46 am

The purpose of these discussion boards is to keep interest in Lehigh sports alive so I appreciate the rhetoric.

The thing about fans is that they are high on passion and low on patience :-). Opinions change game by game. It's the nature of the beast. This past fall I warned the wrestling fans not to evaluate the team based on this year. No one can appreciate how the 5 week shutdown in fall impacts a program especially those lacking veteran talent. It is no different with football.

I am certainly not opposed to finding a new OC but I am having a problem with blasting Gilmore at this stage. Tom took over the program in January of 2019, after the biggest part of recruiting was done and only a month or so from spring practices. During that time he needed to evaluate and assemble an almost entirely new coaching staff which needed to immediately try to beat the bushes for additional talent as well organize an offense and defense in time for fall. He inherited a fairly empty cupboard. Our defense was among the worse in the nation and became the focus of attention and all the superstar talent graduated on offense. Players left as they often do with coaching changes. A new culture needed to be developed and an impatient fan base addressed. Again, the job done with the defense in year 1 was remarkable. The offense will need to upgrade it's talent especially on the O-Line. In Tom's 1st full year of recruiting he appears to have done that.
It was not long ago that these same fans were blasting Folmar in his first year because they idolized Dave C and Drew inherited a QB with a shoulder injury. They were proven wrong.
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Re: Lehigh Lafayette

Post by TMH » Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:00 pm

Final point ..maybe.. :-)

Kevin Higgins who we remember with fondness was hired based on being the DC for probably the worst defense in the PL. He took a 7-4 to 5-5-1 in his first year and had 3 non-winning seasons in his first 4 years. He finally put together the staff he needed and was phenomenal over his last 3 years.

Gilmore took over a Holy Cross program that was 1-11 and a defense that gave up nearly 40 ppg the year before and had a losing record for 10 of the previous 11 years and within 2 years began a string of 7 straight winning seasons.
He was named PL Coach of the year 2 X as well as Assistant Coach of the year once. He has a pedigree for turning a program around.

https://patriotleague.org/news/2019/1/8 ... coach.aspx

The wheels fell off during his later years at Holy Cross but based on a small sampling (2) of Holy Cross fans I know, they didn't blame Gilmore but rather the Administration and AD. I simply urge patience but maintain the passion.
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Re: Lehigh Lafayette

Post by Go Lehigh TU Owl » Sun Apr 11, 2021 1:42 pm

TMH,

I try to be optimistic and I'm not a "glass half empty" guy when it comes to rough stretches; especially for private PL schools. Colgate, Holy Cross (Duffner), Lehigh and Fordham have shown the ability to string together solid runs of success before the inevitable clunker or two kicks in or a coaching change derails the momentum. The late, great DMX said "if it wasn't for pain, joy wouldn't feel so good". That basically sums up being a PL football fan.

The true difference makers more often than not make their mark quickly.

Dick Biddle took over an 0-11 Ed Sweeney team and went 6-5 in his first year in 1996. Tom Masella went 1-10 his last year at Fordham then Moorhead came in and went 6-5. Those are difference makers.

Cecchini took a mess in Lewisburg (losing culture, questionable administrative/alumni support) and has shown progress; if they beat HC they're in the spring FCS Playoffs which will be a program first. BTW, even back when Lehigh was looking at coaches I was not "all in on Cecch". I thought Lehigh was a great job that a proven up and comer would jump at in a second. If nothing else take a bit of gamble on an unknown and trust the Lehigh football culture of success.

Holy Cross fired Gilmore and hired a guy who NEVER had a losing record and had D2 playoff experience. I mean c'mon. I don't think it's a coincidence the two young(er), vibrant coaches with various doses of positive mojo have navigated these last 18 months the best. Rightfully, they have their teams/programs trending towards a fun/successful fall. I also like what Fordham did this spring. If Conlin can clean up the sloppiness he has the horses to position the Rams for a run a Top 25 ranking. Their skill guys are among the best in FCS and their front seven has some FBS talent. I'm interested to see if DeMorat enters the transfer portal. He'd be a great catch for a P5 program imo...

Gilmore and Tavani both inherited tough situations for two different reasons; tragedy vs awful institutional support. With that said, the administration indifference that surrounded Leopard football in the late 90's was probably the toughest situation a PL coach ever took on. And that includes a D3 Fordham program transitioning to D1 via the PL. At least the Rams ambitions were high. Lafayette seriously considered killing football. And with that backdrop Tavani pulled off a 3-peat, a run of national rankings and a 4th title in his twilight. Gilmore managed one league title/one 8+ win season, a couple weeks of national ranking in '09 in his 14 years in Worcester. He had a generational talent at QB in Randolph had just that one 9-3 season. Biddle had his number during that period. Both Tavani and Gilmore's tenures paralleled each other and without question Tavani was more successful. I don't think there's a soul on here that would want Frank Tavani as Lehigh's head coach.

Lehigh had an opportunity to hire a young, vibrant proven coach and they settled for a sub .500 fired PL coach who's done nothing on a national level. Gilmore was hired because he was a very good DC during the "glory years" and had an intimate knowledge of Lehigh football; not because he was a good head coach. I'm not trying to be negative but he's not going to get this thing going anywhere near what we KNOW is Lehigh's or a top PL team's ceiling. He's simply not capable of coming close to that. This upcoming fall is going to be a disaster. I don't want to be negative. I wish the coaching and and development were better to allow the team to compete for a league title and post a winning record. But that's not going to happen without a serious staff shakeup. The offense and special teams not only needs a new coach, they need a quality new coach.

I expect more from Colgate and Lehigh because I know what they can do for the league on a national level. Right now both are in precarious positions due to coaching erosion; at the HC position or the assistant level or both.

Realistically what are expectations heading into the fall? Don't get embarrassed by Villanova, Richmond or Princeton? Have we reached that point? Does anyone truly believe the pieces will be in place to compete and seriously have potential to steal a win there? Do we believe this team will improve enough to challenge for a league title (one of the lowest rated FCS conferences) in the fall? Is the wise money on a winning or losing season? Will it be better or worse than Gilmore's first season; 4-7? Our we confident we'll see tangible improvement over summer/fall camp? We didn't see it during the spring...
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