Villanova

Back-to-back PL champs 2016 and 2017.... but need to get back to relevance in the national FCS scene.
TMH
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Re: Villanova

Post by TMH » Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:31 pm

LHFtball wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:51 pm Okay, let’s keep it simple.

Lehigh hired a coach who was fired under a team mutiny at Holy Cross in 2017. That team under new leadership has won PL titles in 2019 and 2020. They just beat UConn.

Lehigh has scored fewer points every year under this OC, culminating with 19 points in last 4 games. (11 first downs and 1 RZ trip yesterday, off turnover)

Lehigh has recycled assistant coaches at a rate that impacts chemistry and continuity.

Lehigh brings in heralded recruits that are not panning out.

So I ask you all….where does the blame for this lie?

Have at it.
Repeat after me. Gilmore has only had one real season. Yes they averaged .8 ppg less than the season before when the offense featured 2 All-Americans. As a team they went from 3-8 to 4-7 without Bragalone and Mayes.

Heralded Recruits

Please let me know what heralded recruits Gilmore inherited. Woetzel bacame an All-American under Gilmore. McCloskey was 2nd Team PL under Coen and again under Gilmore. That's about it.

The heralded guys were mostly recruited by Gilmore in his 2 full recruiting classes. They are essentially all freshmen since the sophomores didn't have a real season or pre-season for that matter.

Once again, I'm preaching patience. I have no idea where this program will be in a few years but I'm not so impetuous to declare a guilty verdict based on the little evidence we were able to glean so far.


lu90
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Re: Villanova

Post by lu90 » Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:57 pm

Hawkineer wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:29 pm
LHFtball wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:51 pm Okay, let’s keep it simple.

Lehigh hired a coach who was fired under a team mutiny at Holy Cross in 2017. That team under new leadership has won PL titles in 2019 and 2020. They just beat UConn.

Lehigh has scored fewer points every year under this OC, culminating with 19 points in last 4 games. (11 first downs and 1 RZ trip yesterday, off turnover)

Lehigh has recycled assistant coaches at a rate that impacts chemistry and continuity.

Lehigh brings in heralded recruits that are not panning out.

So I ask you all….where does the blame for this lie?

Have at it.
It couldn’t be simpler- Sterrett! The buck stops with him. Despite all of the warning signs and mediocrity at HC, he still chose to hire Gilmore.
+10000. Absolutely horrendous decision made by our current AD in his coaching search. There was nothing in Gilmore's previous Patriot League tenure that gave any credence to the Sterrett hire. 1 (ONE) playoff appearance in 13 years, a 72-81 record and fired mid-season (almost unheard of in PL). Complain about Gilmore all you want, but he didn't hire himself.
TMH
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Re: Villanova

Post by TMH » Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:19 pm

[

+10000. Absolutely horrendous decision made by our current AD in his coaching search. There was nothing in Gilmore's previous Patriot League tenure that gave any credence to the Sterrett hire. 1 (ONE) playoff appearance in 13 years, a 72-81 record and fired mid-season (almost unheard of in PL). Complain about Gilmore all you want, but he didn't hire himself.
[/quote]

Really? Nothing?

Prior to his hiring, Lehigh had arguably one of the very best offensive teams in FCS (2017). Yet they were 6-5. Obviously, the Achilles Heel for Lehigh football was defense. Personally, I would have been very disappointed if we had hired anyone without the resume to handle that problem first. Can we agree on that?

So what was that resume? In his 2 years as the DC at Darmouth, the Big Green had one of the best defenses in country 1-AA. Then he became the DC at Lehigh under Higgins and was named 1-AA National Assistant Coach of the Year in 2001 (I believe)....sound like a good resume so far?

In 2004, he takes over the helm at Holy Cross which went 1-11 the year before he arrived. His first season (3-8) was the only losing season he had until 2012. In 2006, he was the PL COY. In 2009, he repeated that honor. From 2007-2011, they never finished worst than 2nd in the PL.

The wheels began coming off after that. I am not a Holy Cross insider but enough sources indicates that there was animosity between the AD who was new and Gilmore over funding cuts or something. Interesting about the firing ..at least to me. Prior to it, Holy Cross lost a close game to FBS UConn 27-20. They then shut out Bucknell 20-0, crushed #9 New Hampshire 51-26. At that point HC is ranked #25 in the country. They lose a 1pt OT game to 8-2 Dartmouth. The big loss was probably a 3 pt loss to Lafayette when TG decided to go for the 1st down in his own territory. A 12 pt loss to 9-3 Monmouth who qualified for the NCAA and then Yale who was 9-1. They were 2-5, with 1 loss coming to an FBS school and 3 of the other 4 teams had a total of 6 losses for the season.

Just sayin

Now can you provide me with Kevin Higgin's resume prior to his hiring?
TMH
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Re: Villanova

Post by TMH » Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:12 pm

Interesting note:
Pete Lembo who had the best winning percentage in Lehigh history (.759) came to Lehigh in 1998 as the OL coach after being the OC at Div III Hampden Sydney for one year. That team was 0-10 and the offense scored 66 points in those 10 games. Some resume.
After 2 years, he becomes AHC. Then was named HC in 2001, when he wins the Eddie Robinson award as outstanding head coach in 1-AA.

Boosters wanted him run out too after 2 losses to Lafayette. Go figure.!!
Go Lehigh TU Owl
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Re: Villanova

Post by Go Lehigh TU Owl » Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:16 pm

TMH,

There's a difference between being negative and being realistic. I'm trying to be realistic/pragmatic. Lehigh football is not in a good spot with this staff. I'm not a fire the coach because of a bad year or tough "stretch". Lehigh's situation goes well beyond that due to Gilmore's recent ties to this league, his firing at HC, his inability to work with good assistants (and prepare them to move on), his game management, player development and so on.

Temple made a similar irrational coaching hire because they were tired of losing guys. They basically settled on a MAC West guy, Rod Carey, with a respectable but relatively small track record with the hopes it was a job offer "he never expected" and perhaps Carey would stay for a few years. Ultimately, what we got is someone who has no clue how to run a college football program at a school like Temple (and all our administration/urban quirks). Am I saying Carey should be fired? No, we need to get a permanent AD (Dunphy is our acting AD and by nearly all accounts he does not handle business at an "AAC level", understandable but not good), figure out the AAC situation and give Carey at least another year once those pieces are in place. Like Lehigh, Temple has a new president.

Lehigh football has a high ceiling! I know the Coen situation was tough but with a better head coach and staff this "bottoming out" (perhaps at a historic level) does not happen. I honestly don't believe Gilmore is capable of turning this around beyond a couple of 6 win seasons in a decade's worth of work. I certainly don't see him coming close to Higgins', Lembo's or Coen's ceilings; Top 5 teams, multiple top 25 teams.
LHFtball
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Re: Villanova

Post by LHFtball » Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:40 am

TMH wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:19 pm [

+10000. Absolutely horrendous decision made by our current AD in his coaching search. There was nothing in Gilmore's previous Patriot League tenure that gave any credence to the Sterrett hire. 1 (ONE) playoff appearance in 13 years, a 72-81 record and fired mid-season (almost unheard of in PL). Complain about Gilmore all you want, but he didn't hire himself.
Really? Nothing?

Prior to his hiring, Lehigh had arguably one of the very best offensive teams in FCS (2017). Yet they were 6-5. Obviously, the Achilles Heel for Lehigh football was defense. Personally, I would have been very disappointed if we had hired anyone without the resume to handle that problem first. Can we agree on that?

So what was that resume? In his 2 years as the DC at Darmouth, the Big Green had one of the best defenses in country 1-AA. Then he became the DC at Lehigh under Higgins and was named 1-AA National Assistant Coach of the Year in 2001 (I believe)....sound like a good resume so far?

In 2004, he takes over the helm at Holy Cross which went 1-11 the year before he arrived. His first season (3-8) was the only losing season he had until 2012. In 2006, he was the PL COY. In 2009, he repeated that honor. From 2007-2011, they never finished worst than 2nd in the PL.

The wheels began coming off after that. I am not a Holy Cross insider but enough sources indicates that there was animosity between the AD who was new and Gilmore over funding cuts or something. Interesting about the firing ..at least to me. Prior to it, Holy Cross lost a close game to FBS UConn 27-20. They then shut out Bucknell 20-0, crushed #9 New Hampshire 51-26. At that point HC is ranked #25 in the country. They lose a 1pt OT game to 8-2 Dartmouth. The big loss was probably a 3 pt loss to Lafayette when TG decided to go for the 1st down in his own territory. A 12 pt loss to 9-3 Monmouth who qualified for the NCAA and then Yale who was 9-1. They were 2-5, with 1 loss coming to an FBS school and 3 of the other 4 teams had a total of 6 losses for the season.

Just sayin

Now can you provide me with Kevin Higgin's resume prior to his hiring?
[/quote]

TMH…do some research into the TG firing. The full story is out there. Had nothing to do with the AD. Just talk to some ex-players, college and HS coaches in New England to get the scoop. Trust me, you will understand what Owl is saying.
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Re: Villanova

Post by TMH » Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:49 pm

I'll be the first to admit that I personally know almost nobody affiliated with Holy Cross. I have talked several times with Anthony DiMichelle who played for Tom, coached uner him at Holy Cross and now at Lehigh and let's just say that he, in no way shares your opinion.

Back when Gilmore was first hired, the same cast of characters that hate the pick now also hated it back then. There were a couple of stalwarts from Holy Cross that expressed their opinion objectively.

This is from Sader1

As I have posted often on Crossports, my first encounter with Tom that we both remember vividly was at a local Holy Cross alumni club meeting which I hosted - the first he attended - perhaps within a couple of weeks of him being hired as our head coach.

We had heard about his fiery personality so after the AD and he spoke and time for Q&A, I said: "You come here with a reputation for being 'intense,' would that be an accurate description?" He looked at me and he was caught just momentarily off-guard that someone (who he could break in half) would have the temerity to ask him that. But then he said, "I would rather think of it as being 'focused'." Often we would be at other alumni events in which he would laugh and say, "Tom (me), do you remember the first time we met and the first question you asked me?" and then regale the other alums about our encounter.




We were "friends" (more like close acquaintances, never went out for a beer with him) over the rest of his time at Holy Cross and we were always honest with each other - good and bad.We had a trust. He has always been gracious and polite and warm with me and my wife (who loves him for his honesty . . . . and maybe his good looks too).

I know that I never played for him, being many years older, but I have spoken to some of his former players, after they were "safely" away from him. Without fail, they all said that he turned them from boys to men and they respected him. Tom told me that his job was more than just a football coach but saw his role as preparing his players for their lives after college where they would find as hard as football was, life afterwards was harder. Not everyone can either take that or see that. Maybe I just encountered those who could. He comes from Irish immigrants and had to work for everything he got. Perhaps he is a throwback to another era?

He had justifiably been seen (I've known a number of coaches at Holy Cross) as the hardest working guy on campus - coaches or anyone including faculty and staff. He is a workaholic (his poor wife!) and hates to lose. I have no doubt that he is tough on his assistants and hard to work for because he is as demanding of them as he is on himself and many can't take that pressure.




So, you understand where I am coming from, I've analyzed why I like Tom and wish him success at Lehigh, except when you guys play the Crusaders. I wasn't a coach but a manager/leader/executive for many years. I often heard from my former subordinates (again, after they were "safely" away from me and no fear of retribution) that I was a "tough, demanding boss" who they often said was the best they ever had because I drove them to accomplish things they thought was beyond their capabilities. They also said, "You were demanding but never asked anyone to do anything that you wouldn't do yourself and you listened to us and would change your mind if we had a convincing argument."

That's what Tom Gilmore is like. He definitely is not for everyone. Yep, he's emotional but as he said in the press conference, he thinks he has matured. The Tom Gilmore I know will go out of his way to prove that this was the best decision that Lehigh could have ever made.

I admit my bias but I think you got a good one.

Another confirmed that there were funding cuts and other limitations put on the program during Tom's time that led to a personality conflict between two really headstrong personalities. Pine was ex-military who then left HC inn 2019. As that poster put it, Tom turned a program around that had 11 losing season out of 12 before he arrived and turned it around quickly. As he said, TG didn't turn stupid overnight. There was a lot of turmoil going on behind the scenes.

If you have some evidence to support your claim, I'd be glad to read it.

I know I've said this before, but he sounds like John Whitehead to me. He was tough and made his players tougher and almost to man, they really respected that.

Just my opinion.
DF2002
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Re: Villanova

Post by DF2002 » Mon Sep 06, 2021 4:58 pm

TMH wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:49 pm I'll be the first to admit that I personally know almost nobody affiliated with Holy Cross. I have talked several times with Anthony DiMichelle who played for Tom, coached uner him at Holy Cross and now at Lehigh and let's just say that he, in no way shares your opinion.

Back when Gilmore was first hired, the same cast of characters that hate the pick now also hated it back then. There were a couple of stalwarts from Holy Cross that expressed their opinion objectively.

This is from Sader1

As I have posted often on Crossports, my first encounter with Tom that we both remember vividly was at a local Holy Cross alumni club meeting which I hosted - the first he attended - perhaps within a couple of weeks of him being hired as our head coach.

We had heard about his fiery personality so after the AD and he spoke and time for Q&A, I said: "You come here with a reputation for being 'intense,' would that be an accurate description?" He looked at me and he was caught just momentarily off-guard that someone (who he could break in half) would have the temerity to ask him that. But then he said, "I would rather think of it as being 'focused'." Often we would be at other alumni events in which he would laugh and say, "Tom (me), do you remember the first time we met and the first question you asked me?" and then regale the other alums about our encounter.




We were "friends" (more like close acquaintances, never went out for a beer with him) over the rest of his time at Holy Cross and we were always honest with each other - good and bad.We had a trust. He has always been gracious and polite and warm with me and my wife (who loves him for his honesty . . . . and maybe his good looks too).

I know that I never played for him, being many years older, but I have spoken to some of his former players, after they were "safely" away from him. Without fail, they all said that he turned them from boys to men and they respected him. Tom told me that his job was more than just a football coach but saw his role as preparing his players for their lives after college where they would find as hard as football was, life afterwards was harder. Not everyone can either take that or see that. Maybe I just encountered those who could. He comes from Irish immigrants and had to work for everything he got. Perhaps he is a throwback to another era?

He had justifiably been seen (I've known a number of coaches at Holy Cross) as the hardest working guy on campus - coaches or anyone including faculty and staff. He is a workaholic (his poor wife!) and hates to lose. I have no doubt that he is tough on his assistants and hard to work for because he is as demanding of them as he is on himself and many can't take that pressure.




So, you understand where I am coming from, I've analyzed why I like Tom and wish him success at Lehigh, except when you guys play the Crusaders. I wasn't a coach but a manager/leader/executive for many years. I often heard from my former subordinates (again, after they were "safely" away from me and no fear of retribution) that I was a "tough, demanding boss" who they often said was the best they ever had because I drove them to accomplish things they thought was beyond their capabilities. They also said, "You were demanding but never asked anyone to do anything that you wouldn't do yourself and you listened to us and would change your mind if we had a convincing argument."

That's what Tom Gilmore is like. He definitely is not for everyone. Yep, he's emotional but as he said in the press conference, he thinks he has matured. The Tom Gilmore I know will go out of his way to prove that this was the best decision that Lehigh could have ever made.

I admit my bias but I think you got a good one.

Another confirmed that there were funding cuts and other limitations put on the program during Tom's time that led to a personality conflict between two really headstrong personalities. Pine was ex-military who then left HC inn 2019. As that poster put it, Tom turned a program around that had 11 losing season out of 12 before he arrived and turned it around quickly. As he said, TG didn't turn stupid overnight. There was a lot of turmoil going on behind the scenes.

If you have some evidence to support your claim, I'd be glad to read it.

I know I've said this before, but he sounds like John Whitehead to me. He was tough and made his players tougher and almost to man, they really respected that.

Just my opinion.
I have to be honest… this doesn’t really make a good case in his defense. If anything it sounds more like an apology for what others feel are obvious shortcomings.
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Re: Villanova

Post by Sundayamqb » Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:44 pm

FWIW:

When Gilmore was hired, I reached out to an old friend whose son played for TG at Holy Cross during some subpar seasons.

His text:

"Tom is a great coach, very demanding!! He will do well there. He played at Penn also, so a PA guy for sure. Good for him. I did not like the way they let him go after all those years! Good family guy with young kids should be there for some time. He's a tough, hard-nosed old school coach. Just the way I liked it!!"
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