Like it or not, local interest in Lehigh, and in Lafayette, has been meager for decades.
Lehigh ranks very far down a list that starts with the Eagles, Penn State and the high schools.
Everything else is minimal. More people care about the Giants, Jets and Cowboys than about Lehigh.
As for the “beat reporter,” such a thing barely exists in the Lehigh Valley sports scene.
Hoyas
Re: Hoyas
And the rivalry with Lafayette is largely based on interest of old alums from the 50’s and 60’s.
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Sundayamqb
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Re: Hoyas
Former LU Coach raises some great points, including some I might have raised in the past:
His list is CORRECT IMHO about these thing, from his list:
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1. Bad Facilities. Prob the worst in the league.
2. You literally have to drive to 10 minutes from campus to practice and workouts
6. The Lehigh Football locker room might be worse than every locker room at the D1 level in America.
15. Did I mention how bad the facilities are?
17. How about practice times, a lot and by a lot I mean a lot of schools practice in the morning. Not possible at Lehigh. Instead because of the commute over the mountain with position meeting you are lucky to start by 4pm. Nevermind when you have 4pm exams and you have to practice at 7pm at night. Or if you want to use the turf because of weather you have to schedule around Lax.
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I'm not sure about No. 6 -- I've seen and heard of some awful FCS locker rooms -- but he is right on so many of he other challenges.
He is right that a kid with an Ivy offer would likely go there instead of Lehigh -- but as he notes in another post, a kid has to go to the college that suits him personally. There's a lot of factors at play -- including coaches everywhere who will MISLEAD or LIE to you or not be transparent during recruiting. Maybe that doesn't happen at LU or in Former Coach's world, but it does happen.
He's wrong LU is at best an above average academic school. Maybe with some majors and colleges (some may be below average), but not all. Some programs are elite. Could it be he's paid a lot less and has fewer career options than the vast majority of LU grads who got a high-quality education?
Yes, as he said, the Lehigh Valley largely ignores Lehigh. There's a lot of reasons for that. The fact is, no one reads about college sports -- except the top teams -- anymore. Why should they anyone pay to read sports on a paid site like Mcall when Lehigh televises home games has the entire box score for free online?
But his this comment shows what a sharp tack he is:
"Did I mention you all suck as alums."
Thanks for the advice. Could it be that if he really did coach at LU, he was part of the toxicity?
His list is CORRECT IMHO about these thing, from his list:
------------------------------------------
1. Bad Facilities. Prob the worst in the league.
2. You literally have to drive to 10 minutes from campus to practice and workouts
6. The Lehigh Football locker room might be worse than every locker room at the D1 level in America.
15. Did I mention how bad the facilities are?
17. How about practice times, a lot and by a lot I mean a lot of schools practice in the morning. Not possible at Lehigh. Instead because of the commute over the mountain with position meeting you are lucky to start by 4pm. Nevermind when you have 4pm exams and you have to practice at 7pm at night. Or if you want to use the turf because of weather you have to schedule around Lax.
--------------------------------------------------
I'm not sure about No. 6 -- I've seen and heard of some awful FCS locker rooms -- but he is right on so many of he other challenges.
He is right that a kid with an Ivy offer would likely go there instead of Lehigh -- but as he notes in another post, a kid has to go to the college that suits him personally. There's a lot of factors at play -- including coaches everywhere who will MISLEAD or LIE to you or not be transparent during recruiting. Maybe that doesn't happen at LU or in Former Coach's world, but it does happen.
He's wrong LU is at best an above average academic school. Maybe with some majors and colleges (some may be below average), but not all. Some programs are elite. Could it be he's paid a lot less and has fewer career options than the vast majority of LU grads who got a high-quality education?
Yes, as he said, the Lehigh Valley largely ignores Lehigh. There's a lot of reasons for that. The fact is, no one reads about college sports -- except the top teams -- anymore. Why should they anyone pay to read sports on a paid site like Mcall when Lehigh televises home games has the entire box score for free online?
But his this comment shows what a sharp tack he is:
"Did I mention you all suck as alums."
Thanks for the advice. Could it be that if he really did coach at LU, he was part of the toxicity?
Re: Hoyas
We are 240...chants the crowd. Bucknell 241.
Facilities is not the problem. While an indoor training facility would be great, it is not the game changer that special admissions for elite athletes to at least give some top tier student-athletes a shot at LEHIGH would be. While greater entering class average SAT is around 1350, it does not mean that a student athlete with 1100 cannot find a major and graduate from Lehigh in 5 years.
The turnaround all starts with talent acquisition (coaches and athletes), talent development (coaches and athletes) and talent retention (coaches and athletes).
Lehigh has become what it is institutional wide because for last 3 Presidents it has fully accepted mediocrity across the board whether research, talent search or extracurricular activities including sports. Sans some elite coaches who overcome the obstacles of the institution, Lehigh has been a sinking ship across the board since Likins left.
It has lived off of name and prestige for decades while getting fewer top tier PhD hires. Lehigh has the competitive advantage of being in the east coast education cluster of DC to Boston and there are only so many less than 6000 student private universities of a certain esteem. Throw in the growth of Chinese/Foreign applications to US American universities from 400,000 a decade ago to now over 1 million, it explains why all these top schools get 10,000+ applications per year, yet Lehigh still needs to give acceptance of nearly 60% to get a freshman class of a 1000+ (yield is low) because LEHIGH is generally NOT the #1 choice of the majority of applicants.
This is what has to change. LEHIGH needs to push more of its admission to 1st and 2nd round early admission and get students and student/athletes who truly want to be here. This was the case from its founding by Asa Packer when he offered free tuition for essentially first of its kind polytechnic university and did a nationwide search for male students who wanted to go into sciences & engineering. The primary reason is that he needed technical workers and expertise in management for his industries across eastern Pennsylvania.
Facilities is not the problem. While an indoor training facility would be great, it is not the game changer that special admissions for elite athletes to at least give some top tier student-athletes a shot at LEHIGH would be. While greater entering class average SAT is around 1350, it does not mean that a student athlete with 1100 cannot find a major and graduate from Lehigh in 5 years.
The turnaround all starts with talent acquisition (coaches and athletes), talent development (coaches and athletes) and talent retention (coaches and athletes).
Lehigh has become what it is institutional wide because for last 3 Presidents it has fully accepted mediocrity across the board whether research, talent search or extracurricular activities including sports. Sans some elite coaches who overcome the obstacles of the institution, Lehigh has been a sinking ship across the board since Likins left.
It has lived off of name and prestige for decades while getting fewer top tier PhD hires. Lehigh has the competitive advantage of being in the east coast education cluster of DC to Boston and there are only so many less than 6000 student private universities of a certain esteem. Throw in the growth of Chinese/Foreign applications to US American universities from 400,000 a decade ago to now over 1 million, it explains why all these top schools get 10,000+ applications per year, yet Lehigh still needs to give acceptance of nearly 60% to get a freshman class of a 1000+ (yield is low) because LEHIGH is generally NOT the #1 choice of the majority of applicants.
This is what has to change. LEHIGH needs to push more of its admission to 1st and 2nd round early admission and get students and student/athletes who truly want to be here. This was the case from its founding by Asa Packer when he offered free tuition for essentially first of its kind polytechnic university and did a nationwide search for male students who wanted to go into sciences & engineering. The primary reason is that he needed technical workers and expertise in management for his industries across eastern Pennsylvania.
Re: Hoyas
Of Hamster Wheels And Losses to Georgetown
Read more: https://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.c ... es-to.htmlCertainly a game like this weekend against Georgetown, a game were I look at my ripped-out hair, the deep, knawing pain deep in my gut, and the completely irrational anger I feel, definitely does make me pause. Why? Wouldn't the more logical, rational reaction to seeing your team go 1-6 to abandon ship - to hop on a bandwagon of a more successful team? Possibly. But I am simply not built that way.
Re: Hoyas
Sounds to me like you just left Lehigh.Former LU Coach wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2023 10:01 pm TU OWl Lehigh whatever you are… Trust me my man nobody is ever going to mistake you for a football coach. You are in fact a grade A clown. Here is the bottom line.
1. Bad Facilities. Prob the worst in the league
2. You literally have to drive to 10 minutes from campus to practice and workouts
3. Can’t even do a video board the right way blocked by the net lol
4. Lehigh is at best ann above average academic school. Why would any kid who has an Ivy offer go to Lehigh? Makes zero sense.
5. Lehigh doesn’t pay for summer school
6. The Lehigh Football locker room might be worse than every locker room at the D1 level in America.
7. Lehigh Assitant coaches are horribly paid. Put it this way CAA Asst coaches make more than group of 5 coaches. Lehigh is closer to D2/D3 salaries for non coordinators.
8. It is incredibly difficult to get band 1 kids into Lehigh, let a lone transfers
9. Lehigh Alums have drastically unrealistic expectations
10. Schedule… STOP PLAYING NOVA YOU CANT WIN.
11. Kevin Cahill is a Phenomenal football coach, he is cleaning up a disaster. You guys think everything is on the coaches.
12. Do you how many times this message board was brought up in recruiting by parents? Way too many times to count.
13. Way too many alums kids are forced down coaches throat by administration. Too many “Heads Up” emails from Admin about alum kid that should be recruited.
14. The Lehigh Valley largely ignores Lehigh. Why don’t you ask the Mcall beat reporter how many clicks a Lehigh football article gets. It’s lower than anything else.
15. Did I mention how bad the facilities are?
16. I like the strength staff personally. But that staff would have been fired several times over by now anywhere else. Has anyone ever noticed the amount of injuries Lehigh deals with on a year in and year out basis? Yeah that’s in the strength staff, but somehow the football staff is constantly blamed?
16. Did I mention you all suck as alums. I can’t tell you how many times I had to answer Rich H questions from families on a visit.
17. How about practice times, a lot and by a lot I mean a lot of schools practice in the morning. Not possible at Lehigh. Instead because of the commute over the mountain with position meeting you are lucky to start by 4pm. Nevermind when you have 4pm exams and you have to practice at 7pm at night. Or if you want to use the turf because of weather you have to schedule around Lax.
I know it has been done before right… Kevin Higgins is God (he is one of the best coaches and humans on earth btw) but times are different Lehigh in 2016 and 2017 (I was well gone from Lehigh at this point) had Pelletier, Bragalone, Casey, Duffy all of those guys were in NFL training camps. And all of them were off the beaten path recruits, those guys don’t exist anymore, recruiting isn’t the same with social media as 2014/2015 let alone from the 90s. In 2023 those kids don’t come to Lehigh.
Re: Hoyas
A couple of comments on the bullet points in this thread, specifically 12, 13 and 14
12. Do you how many times this message board was brought up in recruiting by parents? Way too many times to count.
I believe this. In fact the reason that the Lafayette board disappeared a few years ago is that the guy who ran it (Andy?) succumbed to pressure from the Athletic Department to shut it down because too many prospects were being turned off by some of the commentary
13. Way too many alums kids are forced down coaches throat by administration. Too many “Heads Up” emails from Admin about alum kid that should be recruited.
I have no way of knowing whether or not this is true but I do not recall very many alums kids ending up on Lehigh rosters. Am I mistaken?
14. The Lehigh Valley largely ignores Lehigh. Why don’t you ask the Mcall beat reporter how many clicks a Lehigh football article gets. It’s lower than anything else.
This is true. Same for Lafayette. The Leopards have a decent loyal following of people who are 60+ who live on/near College Hill that attend the basketball games. Once those folks age out I don't think they will be replaced by future generations. With regards to media interest. Once again, absolutely true. In fact the E-T does not staff any LC, Lehigh or Moravian games with the exception of an occasional Laf-Lehigh matchup. There used to be a time when the E-T beat writer traveled on the team bus with the Pards or later hitched a ride with AthComm/RCN. At least the MC pays a little attention and ditto for WFMZ.
12. Do you how many times this message board was brought up in recruiting by parents? Way too many times to count.
I believe this. In fact the reason that the Lafayette board disappeared a few years ago is that the guy who ran it (Andy?) succumbed to pressure from the Athletic Department to shut it down because too many prospects were being turned off by some of the commentary
13. Way too many alums kids are forced down coaches throat by administration. Too many “Heads Up” emails from Admin about alum kid that should be recruited.
I have no way of knowing whether or not this is true but I do not recall very many alums kids ending up on Lehigh rosters. Am I mistaken?
14. The Lehigh Valley largely ignores Lehigh. Why don’t you ask the Mcall beat reporter how many clicks a Lehigh football article gets. It’s lower than anything else.
This is true. Same for Lafayette. The Leopards have a decent loyal following of people who are 60+ who live on/near College Hill that attend the basketball games. Once those folks age out I don't think they will be replaced by future generations. With regards to media interest. Once again, absolutely true. In fact the E-T does not staff any LC, Lehigh or Moravian games with the exception of an occasional Laf-Lehigh matchup. There used to be a time when the E-T beat writer traveled on the team bus with the Pards or later hitched a ride with AthComm/RCN. At least the MC pays a little attention and ditto for WFMZ.
Re: Hoyas
Some thoughts.
1. I am largely of the belief that it isn't message boards that mess up recruiting, it's people. The presence of a message board is to have a place for fans to bond, preen when the team wins, and possible vent their spleens when their team loses. If a kid or parent is hurt about something said about them on a message board, perhaps football in 2023 is not for them. (Google online at Big 12 or Penn State football message boards to see what abuse paid athletes are getting.)
2. You might have the criticism that I don't "airbrush" things around here. That's fine, but it's not my role to airbrush things. I think it's way better to have a moderated environment that accurately gets the mood than something like the Lafayette board that airbrushes uncomfortable realities. As long as things don't devolve to rumors about kids, personal attacks, doxxing or race or really stupid stuff I tend to leave it up and not edit it out. Many, MANY times the kids have made the posters look very foolish. But in the end there are a lot of Lehigh people care about the athletes and the program. JMHO.
3. I very much believe that this message board accurately portrays what people think in an unfiltered way, and again, as long as things don't get stupid I feel like the positives outweigh the negatives. A lot of times that will be a voice of frustration, especially when Lehigh loses (which - let's be real - has been a lot lately). What is written here can be right, wrong, stupid, genius, insightful or ill-advised, but it is what people think. I feel like that is valuable, and something that helps the program ultimately, even if it makes individuals uncomfortable at times.
1. I am largely of the belief that it isn't message boards that mess up recruiting, it's people. The presence of a message board is to have a place for fans to bond, preen when the team wins, and possible vent their spleens when their team loses. If a kid or parent is hurt about something said about them on a message board, perhaps football in 2023 is not for them. (Google online at Big 12 or Penn State football message boards to see what abuse paid athletes are getting.)
2. You might have the criticism that I don't "airbrush" things around here. That's fine, but it's not my role to airbrush things. I think it's way better to have a moderated environment that accurately gets the mood than something like the Lafayette board that airbrushes uncomfortable realities. As long as things don't devolve to rumors about kids, personal attacks, doxxing or race or really stupid stuff I tend to leave it up and not edit it out. Many, MANY times the kids have made the posters look very foolish. But in the end there are a lot of Lehigh people care about the athletes and the program. JMHO.
3. I very much believe that this message board accurately portrays what people think in an unfiltered way, and again, as long as things don't get stupid I feel like the positives outweigh the negatives. A lot of times that will be a voice of frustration, especially when Lehigh loses (which - let's be real - has been a lot lately). What is written here can be right, wrong, stupid, genius, insightful or ill-advised, but it is what people think. I feel like that is valuable, and something that helps the program ultimately, even if it makes individuals uncomfortable at times.
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Go Lehigh TU Owl
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Re: Hoyas
In 2023 there are many platforms that offer "information" that recruits, parents, administrators, fans, alums, coaches, etc. can check. To single out a message board, especially one of this ilk, as some sort of warning sign/red tape is absurd. One has to have some level of common sense to rationalize the discourse which occurs in athletics/sports based board at the Division 1 level; even if it's "lower level" D1. As others have said, this board is rather mundane relative to others, including those that serve a FCS population (Bisonville.com, Egriz.com, GoHens.net, BobcatNation.com, Crosssports.freeforums.net, etc). Facebook and Twitter seem to have more ignorant hot takes as opposed to the more drawn out thoughts which are more common on a message board.
Before coaches were concerned with social media, they were often arguing with the local beat writer if there was a disconnect in how the program was being portrayed to the "masses". I'm sure there were some good coach and writer quotes from 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago that would cause many to pucker up. Now it comes in different forms and with different agendas. After all, Chuck/LFN is basically a 2023 version of a beat writer right? Where does one draw the line on media influence given the era we're in? Or any type of influence?
You don't think there was pressure playing in front of 12-14k people who expected to enjoy an afternoon and see the Brown and White roll to another win in the late 90's through the mid-2000s? How about the hostile alums of years past, long before social media, displaying displeasure (especially losses to Lafayette) at LU football social engagements?
Now the program is struggling to near historic proportions and supporters want to see the school/players/coaches all succeed/turn this around. Nothing wrong with caring even if it creates some unwelcome noise. Silence is death.....
Before coaches were concerned with social media, they were often arguing with the local beat writer if there was a disconnect in how the program was being portrayed to the "masses". I'm sure there were some good coach and writer quotes from 20, 30, 40, 50 years ago that would cause many to pucker up. Now it comes in different forms and with different agendas. After all, Chuck/LFN is basically a 2023 version of a beat writer right? Where does one draw the line on media influence given the era we're in? Or any type of influence?
You don't think there was pressure playing in front of 12-14k people who expected to enjoy an afternoon and see the Brown and White roll to another win in the late 90's through the mid-2000s? How about the hostile alums of years past, long before social media, displaying displeasure (especially losses to Lafayette) at LU football social engagements?
Now the program is struggling to near historic proportions and supporters want to see the school/players/coaches all succeed/turn this around. Nothing wrong with caring even if it creates some unwelcome noise. Silence is death.....
Re: Hoyas
Good points. So long as things don't get "personal" and can be stated in civility without having to denigrate another person, fine. Keep in mind that 99% of the athletes at Lehigh are not going to be "playing on Sundays". They are learning some great skills that can help them over the course of their life. We all want to win. With "young adults" you never know what you are going to get. We have all done stupid things, though many don't get the pleasure of doing them in front of a few thousand critics. I think any high school student and his parents who sees this board, will see that there is still an interest in Lehigh being successful, again, and that being part of big turnaround, ala 1970-1977 after the desert years, would be something great to be a part of.
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