OOC Slate of Games

Young team returns in 2018-2019 with tons of promise. Can they get back to the NCAA Tournament?
lehigh90
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 11:44 am
Contact:

Re: OOC Slate of Games

Post by lehigh90 » Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:03 am

Talent has to dictate minutes. If Lynch and Karnik are 2 of your best players (hopeful) then they both need to play and sometimes together. Surround them with 3 shooters.

Everybody is saying you can’t play them together because on paper they are both 5’s who play in low post. We agree that Karnik was one of the most talented young big men in the league last year. What are you going to do if Lynch is another Knutson or Kempton, a 4 year foundation block in your front court? He comes in with a bigger resume than Gabe or Tim. If that’s the case (again, hopeful), you can’t limit his or Karnik’s minutes. You need to make it work. I think Karnik could guard 4’s, which is what you would need.

Duncan played with Robinson, Sampson played with Olajuwon, Boogie played with Anthony Davis. You can’t sit talent, you need to make it work. It might not, but have to try if Karnik and Lynch are 2 of your best guys.


StablerBum
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 10:51 pm
Contact:

Re: OOC Slate of Games

Post by StablerBum » Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:12 pm

lehigh90 wrote:
Fri Oct 19, 2018 11:03 am
Everybody is saying you can’t play them together because on paper they are both 5’s who play in low post. We agree that Karnik was one of the most talented young big men in the league last year. What are you going to do if Lynch is another Knutson or Kempton, a 4 year foundation block in your front court? He comes in with a bigger resume than Gabe or Tim. If that’s the case (again, hopeful), you can’t limit his or Karnik’s minutes. You need to make it work. I think Karnik could guard 4’s, which is what you would need.

Duncan played with Robinson, Sampson played with Olajuwon, Boogie played with Anthony Davis. You can’t sit talent, you need to make it work. It might not, but have to try if Karnik and Lynch are 2 of your best guys.
I won't speak for anyone else, but that's not what I'm saying at all. What I'm saying is that I have never seen Nic Lynch play aside from highlights. Yes, he had some high major offers and he has good size. I'm not ready to start referencing twin tower lineups before we know if he can actually play.

A few other aspects to this:
- Lehigh has played a 4 out 1 in offense for at least 10 years and it is clearly Reed's preference. Unless Karnik is comfortable playing outside, it's a pretty drastic shift to a "twin towers" type of system
- The game is getting more wide open, more versatile, and more positionless. College basketball is a guard's game and the three pointer rules. Unless Karnik or Lynch can knock down 3's consistently, I have a hard time imaging them co-existing in an efficient offense and not getting in each other's way.
- Advanced statistics have shown that isolated post-ups (and mid-range jumpers) are not nearly as offensively efficient as open 3's and transition lay-ups/dunks. This is why so many teams are doing away with a classic center, much less two of them together.
- Regardless of "most talent" there is a ripple effect here. If Karnik can hypothetically guard opposing 4's (who today are likely 6'7 or 6'8 wing type athletes), then Andree would have to guard 3's. Can both of them do so?
- The bulk of our depth is on the wings (Tejada, Leufroy, Bennett, M. Wilson). If Lynch, Karnik, and Andree are all playing starting minutes and sharing the court, and Cohen is starting at the point, you are asking those four guys to share minutes at the 2 and spot minutes elsewhere? Not to mention J. Wilson coming in as a 3/4 who I am high on.

I'm not saying that it will never happen or it can't happen. What I'm saying is that from the info we have, it seems unlikely. Now if both Karnik and Lynch are playing like All-PL players, sure - find a way to get them on the court together sometimes. To me, this whole convo is premature to me. But I love talking hoops so let's keep it going!!
lehigh90
Posts: 44
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 11:44 am
Contact:

Re: OOC Slate of Games

Post by lehigh90 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:10 pm

My point, and I don’t think you disagree, is you need to get your talented players on the floor. If these two are very talented, you can’t waste them on the bench. This was my point with Sestina at Bucknell. I don’t care that he sat behind 2 Bucknell bigs the last few years. If he is so talented, he should have been playing. It seems ridiculous to me to sit a “First Team All PL” player, that he is projected to be this year, for 3 seasons. You’ve wasted 3/4 of his career on the bench. And, obviously we are projecting with Lynch as we have no idea. I’m just projecting based on offers, competition and HS career. He may not be ready at all. But, he comes in with more credentials than Knutson or Kempton.

Back to Lehigh, I will give an example during the Reed era. I know he likes a 4 out system, but he hasn’t always run it. Look back to Knutson’s freshman year. He started at the 5 spot from day one and was, at that point, a low post scorer. He could step out to a midrange jumper, but not to 3 pt territory. He played roughly 30 minutes per night. Yet, he played those 30 minutes mostly with Zamir Carrington, who was another low post big. Zahir also played 30 minutes a night. Both were extremely effective. That season, COMBINED, those 2 players attempted 1 3 pointer. 1!!!!

So, two bigs can play together, even under Reed. He surrounded those 2 bigs with 3 shooters, CJ, Hall and Ojo with Buchberger off bench. During the later Knutson era, and the Kempton era, Lehigh couldn’t play two bigs together, because, quite frankly, they didn’t have two bigs who could play. If I remember correctly, these were the years when we constantly complained that Lehigh couldn’t rebound the basketball. But, overall, you need to coach around your talent.
User avatar
jimk72
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 6:39 am
Location: Allentown, Pa.
Contact:

Re: OOC Slate of Games

Post by jimk72 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:26 pm

By the way, Ken Pomeroy has just posted his 2018-19 ratings. We are at 187, Colgate 205, The Bison 206. Being preseason favorite has always been a bit of a black cat for me. Bucknell had a very good young bench along with Sestina last year. Hopefully Kenpom has it right. And we stay healthy........
Bison_137
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 9:53 pm
Contact:

Re: OOC Slate of Games

Post by Bison_137 » Sat Oct 20, 2018 11:03 pm

lehigh90 wrote:
Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:10 pm
This was my point with Sestina at Bucknell. I don’t care that he sat behind 2 Bucknell bigs the last few years. If he is so talented, he should have been playing. It seems ridiculous to me to sit a “First Team All PL” player, that he is projected to be this year, for 3 seasons. You’ve wasted 3/4 of his career on the bench.

Yes, Sestina is very talented. But who would you have benched to give him more playing time? Center Nana Foulland, who was the PL POY as a junior? Or Zach Thomas, who was PL POY as a senior? (Both were 1st team All-PL both seasons.) Can't say to play all three because Thomas was never a fit for the three. His offensive game played better at the four and he couldn't guard threes.

One thing that hurt Sestina's playing time was the fact that Bucknell had no other backup center last year, so they limited Sestina's use at the four to hold down his fouls in case he was needed for extensive minutes at center in the second half of games. It's too bad for Nate the way the numbers worked since he would have started for nine PL teams last year.

One correction: He missed virtually all of his freshman year with a serious shoulder injury, so only 2/3 of his career has been "wasted". Bucknell administration makes it virtually impossible for a player to play a 5th year due to injury, but he will likely end up on scholarship at a very strong program next year.
Lehigh65
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 12:49 pm
Contact:

Re: OOC Slate of Games

Post by Lehigh65 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 10:59 am

Our OOC play will consist of 11 games over the first 55 days of the upcoming season. It kicks off with a trip to Monmouth (NJ) on November 9th and ends in Morgantown (WVA) on December30th. The 11 games are meant to test us and no doubt will. In terms of KenPom 2019 Preseason Ranking of the 353 D-1 programs, our 11 opponents combine to average of 160.5. Three make KenPom’s Top 100. They are: Miami (21), Kansas State (12) and West Virginia (10). It’ll be a stern test and promises to ready us for League play stated to begin on January 2nd against the Leopards of Lafayette. Once we hit PL play, the road levels-out a bit – I didn’t’ say becomes easy – when we face 9 opponents whose combined KenPom average sits today at 239.8. The toughest, in Pomeroy’s eyes, will be: Colgate (205), Bucknell (206), and Holy Cross (207). Looking around the League, everyone with the exception of Lafayette, has chosen to schedule a Top 100 program or two to test their players while, at the same, earning a bit of national recognition along the way. Loyola leads the way with 4 in the Top 100. They are: St. Joe’s, Temple, Maryland, and NC State. Holy Cross has three (Michigan, Providence, and Harvard) as does Bucky with three (Northeastern, Ohio State, and St. Mary’s). Navy (Old Dominion and Maryland) and Colgate (Syracuse and Penn State) pick up 2 each, while AU (Northwestern), Boston U. (Northeastern), and Army (Duke) check-in with one apiece.

Let’s get it started! Who’s up for a trip to Monmouth on November 9?
Bison_137
Posts: 34
Joined: Tue May 15, 2018 9:53 pm
Contact:

Re: OOC Slate of Games

Post by Bison_137 » Mon Oct 22, 2018 11:16 am

Here are all of the PL OOC schedules, with the final Pomeroy rankings of each opponent listed. I chose to use that, as I always do, since I have no faith in the Pomeroy preseason rankings, especially for teams at the PL level.


American Eagles

1 at George Mason 220
2 at Northwestern 85
3 NEW HAMPSHIRE 278
4 at UMBC 166
5 at VMI 331
6 WAGNER 180
7 SAINT FRANCIS (PA) 214
8 at Howard 335
9 MOUNT ST. MARY'S 238
10 MARYLAND-EASTERN SHORE 349
11 at George Washington 192

American MEAN 235
American MEDIAN 220


Army West Point Black Knights

1 MARIST 321
2 at Duke 3
3 vs. Sacred Heart (Providence, RI) 305
4 vs. UMass-Lowell (Providence, RI) 287
5 at Brown 267
6 MARTIME 375
7 at Miami-Ohio 194
8 BINGHAMTON 297
9 FAIRFIELD 212
10 at NJIT 254
11 at Air Force 237
12 at Fairleigh Dickinson 274
13 NIAGARA 205

Army MEAN 249
Army MEDIAN 267


Boston U Terriers

1 at Northeastern 96
2 VERMONT 76
3 EMERSON 375
4 at Albany 151
5 at Eastern Michigan 143
6 at Drexel 251
7 at Rutgers 130
8 at New Hampshire 278
9 at Elon 248
10 UMASS-LOWELL 287
11 at Dartmouth 299
12 NICHOLLS STATE 185
13 BETHUNE-COOKMAN 288

Boston U MEAN 216
Boston U MEDIAN 248


Bucknell Bison

1 at St. Bonaventure 68
2 FAIRFIELD 212
3 CANISIUS 131
4 at Vermont 76
5 NORTHEASTERN 96
6 MONMOUTH 183
7 at La Salle 156
8 at Ohio State 16
9 at St. Mary's 32
10 vs. Rhode Island (Diamond Head Classic) 52
11 vs. Charlotte/TCU (average) 166
12 Diamond Head TBD (average) 140

Bucknell MEAN 111
Bucknell MEDIAN 114


Colgate Raiders

1 at NJIT 254
2 MONMOUTH 183
3 at Cornell 265
4 NAZARETH 375
5 BINGHAMTON 297
6 at Syracuse 41
7 at Siena 303
8 at South Florida 279
9 at Florida Gulf Coast 127
10 at Columbia 231
11 at Penn State 19
12 MARIST 321
13 at Pittsburgh 227

Colgate MEAN 225
Colgate MEDIAN 254


Holy Cross Crusaders

1 SACRED HEART 305
2 at Michigan 7
3 at Providence 63
4 vs. Stony Brook (Uncasville, CT) 223
5 vs. Norfolk St/Siena (Uncasville, CT) 307
6 at Albany 151
7 at Harvard 141
8 FAIRLEIGH DICKINSON 274
9 at Massachusetts 207
10 vs. Rhode Island (Worcester, MA) 52
11 CANISIUS 131
12 SIENA 303
13 at Iona 137

Holy Cross MEAN 177
Holy Cross MEDIAN 151


Lafayette Leopards

1 SAINT PETER'S 217
2 at La Salle 156
3 at Penn 125
4 ST. FRANCIS-BROOKLYN 313
5 at Fairleigh Dickinson 274
6 CORNELL 265
7 SACRED HEART 305
8 at Connecticut 179
9 at Quinnipiac 280
10 ROSEMONT 375
11 PRINCETON 190

Lafayette MEAN 244
Lafayette MEDIAN 265


Lehigh Mountain Hawks

1 at Monmouth 183
2 at Miami-Florida 37
3 MARIST 321
4 PRINCETON 190
5 at Siena 303
6 at Kansas State 42
7 ARKANSAS STATE 281
8 at Yale 197
9 at Mount St. Mary's 238
10 SAINT FRANCIS (PA) 214
11 at West Virginia 12

Lehigh MEAN 183
Lehigh MEDIAN 197


Loyola-Maryland Greyhounds

1 at St. John's 74
2 DARTMOUTH 299
3 DELAWARE STATE 350
4 at Temple 86
5 at Detroit 319
6 vs. Bowling Green/Hampton (Detroit, MI) 241
7 at Towson 153
8 MOUNT ST. MARY'S 238
9 at Drexel 251
10 at Binghamton 297
11 at Maryland 39
12 at UMass-Lowell 287
13 at NC State 46

Loyola MEAN 206
Loyola MEDIAN 241


Navy Midshipmen

1 at Old Dominion 64
2 MARYLAND 39
3 COPPIN STATE 347
4 BRYANT 344
5 at Morgan State 324
6 LIBERTY 184
7 BROWN 267
8 at Delaware
9 at Lipscomb 167
10 at George Mason 220
11 at Cornell 265

Navy MEAN 222
Navy MEDIAN 243


Note: In cases of a MTE where a team's opponent is not known for a given game, I averaged the ranking of the possible opponents. Also for D2/D3 opponents, I arbitrarily used a 375 ranking. That is generous for some of them.
User avatar
jimk72
Posts: 58
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 6:39 am
Location: Allentown, Pa.
Contact:

Re: OOC Slate of Games

Post by jimk72 » Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:55 pm

On the subject of out of conference games, picked up this interest article from the Syracuse basketball site, courtesy of KenZ on the Bucknell board...

All about how teams "buy" OOC games:

https://www.syracuse.com/orangebasketba ... _work.html
Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest