Week-End Salvo -Special Early East Coast Edition

Talk about the champions, or the Top 25 nationally-ranked team!
Oracle
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Re: Week-End Salvo -Special Early East Coast Edition

Post by Oracle » Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:28 pm

Richb-3 wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:46 am
Trenge was #2 at 189 behind Hahn, But on at least one ranking ws #2 overall behind Hahn. So Truly a Whale

Obviously Weaver would have been @1 HS in the country, had he been expected to gain a dozen pounds by sophomore year. But that was not expected, Nor did it happen. I am of course thinking collegiate results, we all thought him a likely world or olympic medalist

When He signed Pirozzola was undefeated and OW his Jr year. He did lose a bout, then later the OW to Letters, so he maybe dropped out of the top 5 as a Sr

Interesting that Bold was top 5. OW as a HS sr. basically one move for his 4 wins and pins. Don't think he placed otherwise. I could have seen him 2nd ranked on his Becahi team, behind Rich Santoro,

===========
Who are our current #4s? I guess among Kutler, Wood, Karam. Wood would have been somewhat problematic, as he was ranked behind a younger HWT by his Sr HS Year
>>>> Manzona Bryant and Thayne Lawrence both ranked #4 at their weight


TMH
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Re: Week-End Salvo -Special Early East Coast Edition

Post by TMH » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:21 pm

1972-73: Mike Frick
1974-75: Mark Lieberman
1978-79: Bob Weaver
1979-80: Tom Bold
1999-00: Jon Trenge (Intermat Top 25, #2 at 189)
2000-01: Mike Pirozzola (IM Top 25, #2 at 145)
2001-02: Troy Letters IM #3
2006-07: David Craig IM #1
2011-12: Mason Beckman IM #6 (near mis

Looking at this list brings up 2 points to me.

1.) Recruiting "whales" is one thing but it doesn't guarantee success. External factors like injuries, motivation etc can certainly derail high school accolades.

2.) Equally startling is the success of those not on the "whale list"
Darryl Burley 2 X champ 4X AA
Mike Brown 4X AA
Darian Cruz 1X Champ, 3 X AA
Zach Rey 1X champ, 3X AA
Pete Yozzo 1 X 3X AA
Rob Hamlin, Rick Hepp, Rich Santoro, Colin Kilrain...all 3 X AAs

All of them were likely highly ranked but perhaps not "elite" We have plenty of guys on the roster roster right now or coming in next year. The key is to motivate them to be the very best version of themselves.
gimpeltf
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Re: Week-End Salvo -Special Early East Coast Edition

Post by gimpeltf » Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:00 pm

TMH wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:21 pm
2.) Equally startling is the success of those not on the "whale list"
Darryl Burley 2 X champ 4X AA
Mike Brown 4X AA
Darian Cruz 1X Champ, 3 X AA
Zach Rey 1X champ, 3X AA
Pete Yozzo 1 X 3X AA
Rob Hamlin, Rick Hepp, Rich Santoro, Colin Kilrain...all 3 X AAs
Darian might not have been that high because of size.
Anyone know what Brown and Rey were ranked?
The Lehigh bio shows Zach ranked 2nd at 285
Brown was 2nd and 1st and won the pa all-star.
jdalu75
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Re: Week-End Salvo -Special Early East Coast Edition

Post by jdalu75 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 7:33 pm

gimpeltf wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:00 pm
TMH wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:21 pm
2.) Equally startling is the success of those not on the "whale list"
Darryl Burley 2 X champ 4X AA
Mike Brown 4X AA
Darian Cruz 1X Champ, 3 X AA
Zach Rey 1X champ, 3X AA
Pete Yozzo 1 X 3X AA
Rob Hamlin, Rick Hepp, Rich Santoro, Colin Kilrain...all 3 X AAs
Darian might not have been that high because of size.
Anyone know what Brown and Rey were ranked?
The Lehigh bio shows Zach ranked 2nd at 285
Brown was 2nd and 1st and won the pa all-star.
Intermat ranked Zach #42 overall, 3rd at 285. Other recent examples --

Cooperman IM #17
Pat Flynn #10
Connor McDonald #24
Hamlin not in the Top 100
Napoli #9
Meys not in the Top 100
Cagnina #13
Hess #44
Nate Brown #52
Randy Cruz #22
Minotti #31
Brill #45
Griffin #23
Vollaro #12
Darian Cruz #52
Scott Parker #66
Milonas #18
Kutler #21
Weiler #19
Karam #15
Wood #10
Paetzell #62
Humphreys #51
Spladle1989
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Re: Week-End Salvo -Special Early East Coast Edition

Post by Spladle1989 » Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:43 am

RichB3....I have no idea who Arrington you are referring to is (actually I do but that is irrelevant)......#34 is Eric Gibson.......look at his wins and losses this year as a sophomore and who his losses were against......very athletic kid and not "maxed" out at high school level.....

He lost in the state semifinals at 138 as a freshman, then easily went on to place 3rd......his sophomore year he was injured during his state semifinal match at 145 and still managed to keep it close, then had to forfeit out to 6th.......those are two "real" weights for a freshman/sophomore 138 and 145.......lost in the finals at Powerade this year to national #1 Lachlan McNeil.........so his 3 losses last year were to state champion, state runner up and #1 in nation.....not bad for a sophomore at 145......

That said, I never said he was a "whale", just said it is another very good "early" signing for Cornell........
drd5748
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Re: Week-End Salvo -Special Early East Coast Edition

Post by drd5748 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:53 pm

Good summaries, led by #1 Frick in '72) and Mark Lieberman in '74 ... Matt Ruppel was Top 5 in '87, as were Coop (trnsf), Letters & Trenge. Everyone agrees they'd like more, while most get why less often. It's never a good idea to obsess about the obvious perennial recruiting kings -- notably IA, PSU, OhSt, OkSt and next up CU.

2006---1- David Craig
2006--12- Pat Flynn
2009---9- Joey Napoli
2009-- 7- Austin Meys (maybe the toughest of 'em all)
2011---8- Mason Beckman
2012--12- Doug Vollaro
2014--14- Dylan Milonas
2016--10- Jordan Wood

The big questions, following up on O's Salvo: why was it so hard for Iowa to project a title until the 1st time in 10 yrs? ....after 4 straight titles 2003-2006, how did Okla St miss Top 10 for the 1st 2 times ever? And just 5 Top 5 teams in the last 11 yrs ?? ..... Ohio St 4 below Top 5 in 5 yrs 2010-2014 before 5 straight Top 3's?

All 3 of these super powers have proven consistent ability to dominate at the top, while CU last talked of the top in their big yrs in '10, '11, stuck mostly at 7,8 the last 6 yrs. Consistency, absolutely. Recruiting and winning often related; sometimes not.

Year--CU--PS--OhS-OkS--IA
2019--7--- 1----2----3----4
2018--7--- 1----2---13----3
2017--8--- 1----2----3----4
2016--7--- 1----3----2----5
2015--5--- 6----1----7----2
2014--7--- 1----6----3----4
2013--5--- 1----6----2----4
2012--4--- 1----5----6----3
2011--2--- 1----2----9---4
2010--2--- 9----8----6---1
2009--5---17----2---16---1
2008--9----3----2----5---1
2007--12--11--10----5---8
2006--5----9----4----1---4
Oracle
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Re: Week-End Salvo -Special Early East Coast Edition

Post by Oracle » Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:21 am

Interesting that just 2 became AAs from Denny's list 2006-2016.
Richb-3
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Re: Week-End Salvo -Special Early East Coast Edition

Post by Richb-3 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:45 am

Oracle wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:28 pm
Richb-3 wrote:
Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:46 am
Trenge was #2 at 189 behind Hahn, But on at least one ranking ws #2 overall behind Hahn. So Truly a Whale

Obviously Weaver would have been @1 HS in the country, had he been expected to gain a dozen pounds by sophomore year. But that was not expected, Nor did it happen. I am of course thinking collegiate results, we all thought him a likely world or olympic medalist

When He signed Pirozzola was undefeated and OW his Jr year. He did lose a bout, then later the OW to Letters, so he maybe dropped out of the top 5 as a Sr

Interesting that Bold was top 5. OW as a HS sr. basically one move for his 4 wins and pins. Don't think he placed otherwise. I could have seen him 2nd ranked on his Becahi team, behind Rich Santoro,

===========
Who are our current #4s? I guess among Kutler, Wood, Karam. Wood would have been somewhat problematic, as he was ranked behind a younger HWT by his Sr HS Year
>>>> Manzona Bryant and Thayne Lawrence both ranked #4 at their weight
I thought I was pretty clear the whales(not my term) were in the top 5 of all guys, not the top 5 in their weight. There are not 50 or 70 whales each year. If there are 5 whales each year, you would expect 1 or 2 to win an NCAA title, you would be somewhat surprised if none won a title only ever 1 title.===================================== OK the year of Villalongo, Marshall Pep, and the Altons was a bit of a bust*wasn't the other guy in the top 5 a Brandon 4-time champ without much college success?

Somewhere I saw Z Rey was ranked overall in the 30s
jdalu75
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Re: Week-End Salvo -Special Early East Coast Edition

Post by jdalu75 » Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:47 am

Oracle wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:21 am
Interesting that just 2 became AAs from Denny's list 2006-2016.
Also interesting that during that 11-year span (not counting Coop-Zinck-Frick in 2006) nine other Lehigh wrestlers were AAs, including several multiple times. Suggests that not all HS superstars become college superstars, and some non-HS superstars continue to develop.

No telling what Meys (Guillain-Barre), Milonas (multiple concussions), or Vollaro (two major leg injuries) might have achieved. Suppose I could add Napoli (who reportedly was fortunate to still be competing at the end) to that list.
whiz wit
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Re: Week-End Salvo -Special Early East Coast Edition

Post by whiz wit » Mon Jun 22, 2020 10:21 am

jdalu75 wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:47 am
Oracle wrote:
Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:21 am
Interesting that just 2 became AAs from Denny's list 2006-2016.
Also interesting that during that 11-year span (not counting Coop-Zinck-Frick in 2006) nine other Lehigh wrestlers were AAs, including several multiple times. Suggests that not all HS superstars become college superstars, and some non-HS superstars continue to develop.

No telling what Meys (Guillain-Barre), Milonas (multiple concussions), or Vollaro (two major leg injuries) might have achieved. Suppose I could add Napoli (who reportedly was fortunate to still be competing at the end) to that list.
What happened with/to Griffin (#23)?
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