scholarship rules changes

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Richb-3
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scholarship rules changes

Post by Richb-3 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:57 am

On the Football Forum, RichH wrote a brief article about revisions to scholarship rules that, I think means Lehigh could provide need based scholarships, the put Merit, athletic, funds on top of that. If I understand, and am not not making false assumptions, LU wrestling would be able to give everyone the need based aid they would give the guys if they were not wrestlers, plus almost 25%. Maybe RichH will bring that discussion over here, or Gimp or JDA might have more knowledge on the subject


gimpeltf
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Re: scholarship rules changes

Post by gimpeltf » Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:13 am

Richb-3 wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:57 am
On the Football Forum, RichH wrote a brief article about revisions to scholarship rules that, I think means Lehigh could provide need based scholarships, the put Merit, athletic, funds on top of that. If I understand, and am not not making false assumptions, LU wrestling would be able to give everyone the need based aid they would give the guys if they were not wrestlers, plus almost 25%. Maybe RichH will bring that discussion over here, or Gimp or JDA might have more knowledge on the subject
So many things are changing it's hard to keep up. I'll take a look but you have to realize football scholarships are quite different than most other sports. And since the post was on the football forum it might be moot here. In football, scholarships are all or nothing. If you give anything it counts as 1. In wrestling it counts as the percentage you give (if anything athletic then all need counts as part of the percentage but academic doesn't). I suspect that what RichH would be talking about is that the advantage is that you can bundle it from different funding sources but as far as the NCAA goes it still counts as 1. So the athletic part coming from the athletic department budget could be limited.
Kind of an educated guess.
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Re: scholarship rules changes

Post by Richb-3 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:58 pm

Here is a baseball oriented article. I would think everyone save Fball and bktBall should be similar.

https://d1baseball.com/featured/ncaa-di ... 20athletes.
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Re: scholarship rules changes

Post by gimpeltf » Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:11 pm

Richb-3 wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 4:58 pm
Here is a baseball oriented article. I would think everyone save Fball and bktBall should be similar.

https://d1baseball.com/featured/ncaa-di ... 20athletes.
Football, BBall, W Gym, W Tennis, W VBall are considered head count sports (I couldn't remember the term earlier). The rest are equivalency sports.
Richb-3
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Re: scholarship rules changes

Post by Richb-3 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:52 pm

W Tennis?? Aren't they all foreigners, at the powers?

Interesting that the total likely only about 1/2 football. I am thinking that W-basketball may have 16 as opposed to 13 for men
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RichH
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Re: scholarship rules changes

Post by RichH » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:53 pm

Richb-3 wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:57 am
On the Football Forum, RichH wrote a brief article about revisions to scholarship rules that, I think means Lehigh could provide need based scholarships, the put Merit, athletic, funds on top of that. If I understand, and am not not making false assumptions, LU wrestling would be able to give everyone the need based aid they would give the guys if they were not wrestlers, plus almost 25%. Maybe RichH will bring that discussion over here, or Gimp or JDA might have more knowledge on the subject
While football benefits.NCAA Limits the total number of recruited player schollies to 85. No need/ merit limit on unrecruited WOs.
Dont think wrestling limits the numbers of recruited athletes getting aid.

WBB has 15 schollies
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RichH
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Re: scholarship rules changes

Post by RichH » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:02 pm

gimpeltf wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 11:13 am
Richb-3 wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 10:57 am
On the Football Forum, RichH wrote a brief article about revisions to scholarship rules that, I think means Lehigh could provide need based scholarships, the put Merit, athletic, funds on top of that. If I understand, and am not not making false assumptions, LU wrestling would be able to give everyone the need based aid they would give the guys if they were not wrestlers, plus almost 25%. Maybe RichH will bring that discussion over here, or Gimp or JDA might have more knowledge on the subject
So many things are changing it's hard to keep up. I'll take a look but you have to realize football scholarships are quite different than most other sports. And since the post was on the football forum it might be moot here. In football, scholarships are all or nothing. If you give anything it counts as 1. In wrestling it counts as the percentage you give (if anything athletic then all need counts as part of the percentage but academic doesn't). I suspect that what RichH would be talking about is that the advantage is that you can bundle it from different funding sources but as far as the NCAA goes it still counts as 1. So the athletic part coming from the athletic department budget could be limited.
Kind of an educated guess.
Correct. It expands the reach of schollies to many more of the 85 allowed by NCAA. Now we give full rides and 1/2s in recruiting. We can add need/merit aid but it counts vs both NCAA and PL rules. Under new rule qe could give 1/4 or a 1/3 to a recruit and fill in the package with need/merit w/o that going against NCAA limits. PL rule as to football schollied will need to be mofified .
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Re: scholarship rules changes

Post by gimpeltf » Thu Jul 16, 2020 8:52 pm

Richb-3 wrote:
Thu Jul 16, 2020 6:52 pm
W Tennis?? Aren't they all foreigners, at the powers?

Interesting that the total likely only about 1/2 football. I am thinking that W-basketball may have 16 as opposed to 13 for men
15
jdalu75
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Re: scholarship rules changes

Post by jdalu75 » Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:21 pm

I'm going to reserve judgment on this until I see the NCAA press release. What I saw on the Division I Council minutes from their June meeting is incomplete, referring to something discussed at an earlier meeting and giving an incomplete summary. The most complete discussion is here: https://d1baseball.com/featured/ncaa-di ... d-changes/

My understanding is that right now, in the partial-scholarship sports like baseball and wrestling, an athlete may receive either merit-based and need-based aid, or athletic-based no-need scholarship aid, but not both. I've been told of Lehigh wrestlers who were receiving enough merit- and need-based aid that, when offered no-need aid, turned it down because they were doing better as it was.

It sounds like what this means is that the staff can now offer both no-need aid and need-based aid to someone who qualifies for it ("stacking" the aid). Need-based aid is determined by the financial aid office at universities, and just because a student qualifies for it doesn't mean they get it; the school needs to have the funds available and most schools can't provide all the aid that their students qualify for. But it's another tool for coaches to use when crafting their offers to prospective recruits. 35 years ago Thad insisted that he needed the ability to target aid in order to recruit top wrestlers; this sort of allows coaching staffs to target two different types of aid in the same direction. If that's what the NCAA really intends.

Of course, the administration needs to support this. I heard that once the no-need aid was funded for the team in the early '90s that the amount of need-based aid allotted to wrestling was reduced and re-allocated to other teams.
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Re: scholarship rules changes

Post by gimpeltf » Fri Jul 17, 2020 10:49 pm

I posted on TheMat but this is from the D1 Council. It still has to go through the Board of Directors in about 10 days.
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