PA v USA

[lu_alum]

He could have done better than Patriot League football. Seems like he sold himself short.

There was interest. Iowa and Penn State on a wrestling scholarship were prepared for him to be a preferred walk-on for football. Both schools wanted him at center or guard. Kinney wants to play defensive side of the ball at DT. The family also wants to see him compete, so for the most part, it would be a school within 200 miles of Nazareth that would have landed him. However, I believe Lehigh football did extend an offer.

Lafayette Club Wrestling could be a beneficiary.

It is not possible to have an athletic scholarship for wrestling and walk-on for football. The NCAA guidelines state that, if a scholarship athlete is participating in multiple sports (one of which being football), the scholarship must be counted against the institution's allotted football scholarship count (85 for FBS, 63 FCS).

It will take me longer to dig up the NCAA rulebook guidelines, so pardon the Wikipedia citation:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Divi ... t_athletes

Rules for multi-sport athletes
The NCAA also has rules specifying the sport in which multi-sport athletes are to be counted, with the basic rules being:

• Anyone who participates in football is counted in that sport, even if he does not receive financial aid from the football program. An exception exists for players at non-scholarship FCS programs who receive aid in another sport.

• Participants in basketball are counted in that sport, unless they also play football.

• Participants in men's ice hockey are counted in that sport, unless they also play football or basketball.

• Participants in both men's swimming and diving and men's water polo are counted in swimming and diving, unless they count in football or basketball.

• Participants in women's (indoor) volleyball are counted in that sport unless they also play basketball.

• All other multi-sport athletes are counted in whichever sport the school chooses.

UPDATE: Found the citation in the 2023-24 NCAA manual (covered on pages 201-202):
https://www.ncaapublications.com/p-4673 ... anual.aspx

[gimpeltf]

UPDATE: Found the citation in the 2023-24 NCAA manual (covered on pages 201-202):
https://www.ncaapublications.com/p-4673 ... anual.aspx

I love how they phrase this.
First- if you are recruited by football and offered money but compete in other sports also- the scholarship counts against football.
Second- if you are NOT recruited or offered money for football but compete in other sports and offered money- it counts against football.
The first rule of fight club...

[lu_alum]

UPDATE: Found the citation in the 2023-24 NCAA manual (covered on pages 201-202):
https://www.ncaapublications.com/p-4673 ... anual.aspx

I love how they phrase this.
First- if you are recruited by football and offered money but compete in other sports also- the scholarship counts against football.
Second- if you are NOT recruited or offered money for football but compete in other sports and offered money- it counts against football.
The first rule of fight club...

There's a whole section regarding recruiting of multi-sport athletes a few pages earlier in the NCAA manual.

Clearly, the objective is to prevent the football heavyweights from finding loopholes to stack rosters beyond the 85/63 limits.

[gimpeltf]

My point was that all they had to say was that the scholarship goes to football.

[lu_alum]

My point was that all they had to say was that the scholarship goes to football.

Fair enough. But then again, this is the NCAA. Why use five words when 50 will do?

[HFO]

He could have done better than Patriot League football. Seems like he sold himself short.

There was interest. Iowa and Penn State on a wrestling scholarship were prepared for him to be a preferred walk-on for football. Both schools wanted him at center or guard. Kinney wants to play defensive side of the ball at DT. The family also wants to see him compete, so for the most part, it would be a school within 200 miles of Nazareth that would have landed him. However, I believe Lehigh football did extend an offer.

Lafayette Club Wrestling could be a beneficiary.

It is not possible to have an athletic scholarship for wrestling and walk-on for football. The NCAA guidelines state that, if a scholarship athlete is participating in multiple sports (one of which being football), the scholarship must be counted against the institution's allotted football scholarship count (85 for FBS, 63 FCS).

It will take me longer to dig up the NCAA rulebook guidelines, so pardon the Wikipedia citation:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCAA_Divi ... t_athletes

Rules for multi-sport athletes
The NCAA also has rules specifying the sport in which multi-sport athletes are to be counted, with the basic rules being:

• Anyone who participates in football is counted in that sport, even if he does not receive financial aid from the football program. An exception exists for players at non-scholarship FCS programs who receive aid in another sport.

• Participants in basketball are counted in that sport, unless they also play football.

• Participants in men's ice hockey are counted in that sport, unless they also play football or basketball.

• Participants in both men's swimming and diving and men's water polo are counted in swimming and diving, unless they count in football or basketball.

• Participants in women's (indoor) volleyball are counted in that sport unless they also play basketball.

• All other multi-sport athletes are counted in whichever sport the school chooses.

UPDATE: Found the citation in the 2023-24 NCAA manual (covered on pages 201-202):
https://www.ncaapublications.com/p-4673 ... anual.aspx

Maybe, maybe not. The scholarship may count against the football team count, but the money could be from the budget of the wrestling program. So in a way, both of our positions are valid. Regardless, the kid was talking with each school, but still chose the opportunity to play football at the position of his choice. He will be a starter as a true freshman. There will not be another big man at Lafayette with Kinney's athletic ability. He will be a force while he is at Lafayette which I do not expect to be more than 2 years. Other schools will come looking for him at FBS.

[lu_alum]

Maybe, maybe not. The scholarship may count against the football team count, but the money could be from the budget of the wrestling program. So in a way, both of our positions are valid. Regardless, the kid was talking with each school, but still chose the opportunity to play football at the position of his choice. He will be a starter as a true freshman. There will not be another big man at Lafayette with Kinney's athletic ability. He will be a force while he is at Lafayette which I do not expect to be more than 2 years. Other schools will come looking for him at FBS.

That’s an NCAA violation. Either the schools are breaking the rules or your source is stretching the truth.

[HFO]

Maybe, maybe not. The scholarship may count against the football team count, but the money could be from the budget of the wrestling program. So in a way, both of our positions are valid. Regardless, the kid was talking with each school, but still chose the opportunity to play football at the position of his choice. He will be a starter as a true freshman. There will not be another big man at Lafayette with Kinney's athletic ability. He will be a force while he is at Lafayette which I do not expect to be more than 2 years. Other schools will come looking for him at FBS.

That’s an NCAA violation. Either the schools are breaking the rules or your source is stretching the truth.

What you posted showed nothing to that position. The scholarship count is a count of positive integer numbers. To my knowledge, it says nothing to the point of where the funding comes from. I doubt it is an NCAA violation. The count maintains that there is no benefit of double sports athletes and loading up the football team with 200 scholarship recipients. All the language in the NCAA rules achieves is that you are capped on the number of players receiving funding from the university.

To my knowledge, it says nothing to whose budget it comes out of whether financial aid, or another sports budget. So a player of football team, whether he is on track team, wrestling team, or lacrosse or whatever, is just a head count to the limit number for each division.

The money and budgets of how the student is funded to be on campus to my knowledge has nothing to do with it. It just prevents stacking above the limit on players with double sport athletes and the rule is specifically ONLY for football for the head count.

Anyway, I don't care. NCAA rules are always challenged by legal cases and hashed out.