Time for a change?

Talk about the champions, or the Top 25 nationally-ranked team!
Oracle
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Re: Time for a change?

Post by Oracle » Sat May 23, 2020 10:47 am

TMH wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 10:47 pm
I'm not sure where this became an either/or debate. Everything we discussed is a contributing factor to injuries.
Agree. However, the number of competitions has become extreme at certain institutions....and high school -- forgeddaboutit. Traveling out of state for tournaments is over-the-top.

Why don't we have NFL games 3 times a week like the NBA? Wrestling training is monster physical....add in weight control and it's down-right beastly. No other college sport comes close. Thus, IMO, cutting back on the number of competitions is vitally important. That and outlawing certain positions that so obviously lead to injury. You can easily outlaw them by awarding penalty points.

Again, I agree it's a combination of more than one factor. Good thread.


drd5748
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Re: Time for a change?

Post by drd5748 » Sun May 24, 2020 10:58 pm

I don't have scientific research but, having attended 18 Midlands, a South Beach plus five Scuffles, I'm pretty certain injury rates go up when kids go home for the holidays and come back, with blips in weight control + ideal fitness. IMHO, this raises the risk of injuries, many of which are readily recalled.

How many of you attended the Midlands on Dec 29, 2011 when Joe Kennedy went down with a severely separated shoulder? Then Brandon Hatchett went down the next day with an virtually identical 3rd degree shoulder injury? I used to room with Jack Foley back then and nearly threw up after his gruesome summary of what happened to their shoulders.

Brandon, in particular, told Jack: "I'm done; there's no way I can make the post-season." So Jack spent the 1st few days performing psychological counseling just to convince him 'yes, you can'; not easy but we've done this before" ... then went through the next four steps in the grueling process.

Let the record show that Joe returned to a dual on Feb. 11 (44 days); Brandon on Feb 18, or 51 days. How did they get hurt? Each got taken down straight to their backs; never had a chance. A little different from Brad in Feb.17, 2001 when Army start Maurice Worthy barrel rolled him & torpedoed his shoulder into the mat; bad timing for the exact same injury (unlike Springman Feb '02, Brad did not feel Worthy had any inj. intent).

Tough sport. We're very lucky we've had Jack over 30 years to fix things.
jdalu75
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Re: Time for a change?

Post by jdalu75 » Mon May 25, 2020 12:52 pm

drd5748 wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 10:58 pm
Brad in Feb.17, 2001 when Army start Maurice Worthy barrel rolled him & torpedoed his shoulder into the mat; bad timing for the exact same injury
I was at that dual. Dillon was a r/s freshman, Worthy a senior who made it to the NCAA finals. Brad grabbed a deep single leg that looked like a sure takedown and Worthy just sort of leaped into Brad; they went flying through the air and landed on Brad's shoulder and stuck to the mat. I never thought there was any intent to the injury. It was just a remarkable show of strength in countering what appeared to be a terrific shot by Dillon.
gimpeltf
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Re: Time for a change?

Post by gimpeltf » Mon May 25, 2020 1:24 pm

jdalu75 wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 12:52 pm
drd5748 wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 10:58 pm
Brad in Feb.17, 2001 when Army start Maurice Worthy barrel rolled him & torpedoed his shoulder into the mat; bad timing for the exact same injury
I was at that dual. Dillon was a r/s freshman, Worthy a senior who made it to the NCAA finals. Brad grabbed a deep single leg that looked like a sure takedown and Worthy just sort of leaped into Brad; they went flying through the air and landed on Brad's shoulder and stuck to the mat. I never thought there was any intent to the injury. It was just a remarkable show of strength in countering what appeared to be a terrific shot by Dillon.
I thought Maurice lifted Brad. He had great hips.
jdalu75
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Re: Time for a change?

Post by jdalu75 » Mon May 25, 2020 2:50 pm

gimpeltf wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 1:24 pm
I thought Maurice lifted Brad. He had great hips.
Sounds right. But he did it countering a great shot by Brad.
legger
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Re: Time for a change?

Post by legger » Mon May 25, 2020 9:18 pm

**** I remember an early trip to the old wrestling room. Brad was a frosh, at around 135 lbs or so. Near the same weight was Toby Fagan (NJ) and another frosh (not sure, maybe John McCumber (OH) or Dave Esposito (NJ)), not really sure on who. They were going 3 round robins (2 on and 1 off) for about 45 minutes, and Brad was not getting the best of either guy. He was not taking it well. He came off the mat and screamed "I have to get better". I saw something right then, a change in him. I knew he was going to be special. He was not going accept being just good. From that day forward, every time I went to the room, he had gotten better and now he was taking it to the same guys.
gimpeltf
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Re: Time for a change?

Post by gimpeltf » Mon May 25, 2020 10:56 pm

Brad's first year was 2000 at 157 all year. He was 135(+2) his senior year in HS.
Toby's last year was 1995.
Most other NJ kids besides Espo would have been hard to confuse. Both Dufresnes and Shawn Laughlin.
I think Dave Bautis was the only other one.
Richb-3
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Re: Time for a change?

Post by Richb-3 » Tue May 26, 2020 9:11 am

McCumber also was 1995 Grad. Remember, 7,999 people in Rec Hall saw him pin Kolat. The one who didn't was the ref. Even the Nittany Lion saw the pin and tried to wipe out the incriminating tracks
legger
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Re: Time for a change?

Post by legger » Tue May 26, 2020 9:31 am

**** Sorry about the confusion of the wrestlers Brad was going against. A lot of visits to the room over a lot of years, during the tenures of Thad, Tom Hutchinson, Bob Latessa, Greg and Pat. However, I still remember vividly how Brad was intensely upset at losing to the other 2 wrestlers and how he came off the mat and screamed "I have to get better".
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